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Winning an EMMY Hurt My Career – Podcast EP 2 William Boyer

by Clarke Scott | Last Updated: September 7, 2021

In this episode, I talk with William Boyer about his time as an actor, his move into commercial filmmaking, and how winning an EMMY actually made things more difficult for his career.

Show Notes

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0101483/

Episode Transcript

0:00
You know, I find that that that that helps. I’m not doing proposals anymore. I’m cutting to the chase. I’m telling people look, I don’t do proposals. I asked you what you have, and I’ll see what I can do.

0:13
Welcome to another episode of the next level filmmakers show where we interview filmmakers from around the world to explore their pathway to success. What worked, what’s working now, so you can take your career and business to the next level. I’m your host, Clarke, Scott. And I believe that having the right systems in place is the difference between taking your career and business to the next level, or just being another dude or dudette with a camera. So if you’re tired of hustling for one of projects, the undervalued and underpaid, I’d like to invite you to an exclusive free training I’ve put together for filmmakers, just like you where I share the exact strategies I’ve used to grow my own video production agency. Just go to Clarke Scott education comm let’s clock with an E. Clarke Scott education.com, forward slash free training. That’s Clarke, Scott education.com forward slash free training and start your journey to becoming a next level filmmaker today. Cool. All right. So you want to just kick straight into this thing? Yeah, let’s go. We we him and I have obviously spoken beforehand. So he knows the questions have given me a little bit of prep time. Question number one for you, Mr. whim. Boy,

1:23
is how did you get your start? So I think that I honestly, initially, I went in to an avid sweet

1:33
about almost 28 years ago,

1:36
when it was there’s a lot of still like tape to tape and avid just started and it took forever for files to be ingested and things like that. So but I, you know, I sat and I watched the kind of how that all was taken place with an editor and I was with a producer as like a friend. And

1:53
I was blown away by kind of like how it all worked. I didn’t go to school for it. I did not, you know, I didn’t go to college for that went completely something totally different. But when I saw that I decided, you know,

2:06
that’s much cooler than, you know, waiting and pushing. And I don’t know, I just want to get into a cool a cool field. And I thought that was pretty cool. Honestly, I thought this like that looked cool. So I want to do that. Plus, I was such a huge movie fan. And I you know, I trained to be an actor in England. So, you know, watching TV shows and things I’ve been in and like going to the post production parts of it, and then going into the avid suites back then because it was much more avid than anything.

2:33
I just, I was fascinated with it. And I thought what a great way to control, you know, performance and control, you know, that kind of the story was to add it. And so I started, you know, I got went in and I kind of like, looked up a bunch of places. And I said, you know, and this was when I was like, mid late 20s. I’m almost 50 now so. So that was a as a assistant editor. Right? Is that correct? Yeah, I mean, I was basically going to take anything I could get because I was so fascinated, then when the industry was sort of really taking off for the digital nonlinear editing. Before it was so tape to tape and reel to reel type stuff. You know, I I was just after that head started to change I got I kind of was introduced into the industry. And I was just so fascinated, I decided, you know what, I just come back from England, from London from living there for 10 years. And I decided, you know what, I’m gonna wait tables at night and work for free for eight hours a day to learn how to do this. So I did that for two years, straight five days a week, six days a week, 10 hours a day, waiting tables, three to five hours a night to live, to learn how to how to edit. And I basically worked. I know, I showed her beast and breathed on guy’s neck for like two years. And he To this day, I’m still friends with him. And he reminds me of how I breathe. I was breathing on him. Because I was like, fascinated with it. So my face was close to the screen. So just learning, you know, watching series editorial, you know, half hour series editorial for sports events, and for sports TV shows. And so they made you work. I mean, it was volunteer work, you were an intern, right? So pretty much to for two years, eight to 10 hours a day, five days a week, and you didn’t get paid a cent for that. Nope. I did not. But after the two years, you know, I would take over like whenever the guy would be sick or go on vacation, I would take over and then they never really had the need for another editor because of the work the work and the amount of work they were small studio small shop small small post production graphics place and editorial place. So they never really had the need until about two years in and then I took a job or I was basically offered a job to work but it was on like a day rate, not really a slick salary. So I would work day rates like 12 hours a day, slugging it through these, these, these series and so that they can take on more work but yeah

5:00
I mean, I wasn’t paid properly, there’s no way. But then I was as soon as I did that I put I was putting a reel together while I was doing it just like collecting things I was proud of, and putting them on, you know, exploiting them as quick times and stuff like that and just kind of keeping them on a hard drive. And then I would edit my own demo, and then pass them out. And then I actually was that I was offered my first job in a company called media calm. And they, they edited promos for several different networks. They were sort of like a promo house. And I would, I would edit promotion, which you know, was basically turned into like I was doing half hour shows 26 minutes with no commercial time in there.

5:41
And then I would actually started working on promos. So it was like short form stuff coming up next on and doing starting doing graphics and started doing, you know, had to do it, you kind of backed yourself and Okay, now I get to learn After Effects and Adobe products and, and getting into that kind of stuff. And so, you know, that then spiraled on to, you know, freelancing, and I started freelancing for NASCAR. And then I started doing documentaries for NASCAR and Showtime. And, you know, doing I ended up doing, like, I think I told you before, but I think I did 837 TV shows, but a lot of them were like series of like 10, eight, a six part series, like all these sort of documentaries, sports documentaries, like feature features on like, specific types of people, I did a big documentary won some awards for a 911 when 911 happened there was that we did a documentary, and it was won a lot of awards, which was pretty cool. And so how do you tell that standard? Sorry, how did you transition between the the framework? So so let’s just get this straight. So you basically turned up one day and said, Can I work? I’ll work for free? I’ll do anything else. So yeah, it was a cold, call them cold call and said I will do whatever it takes to get in and learn how to do this. Okay. The who was the person that you spoke to?

7:02
The owner of the company? Okay, so you and how did you find? Who did you like back then? the phonebook? Yeah. In Australia, we call it the yellow pages. So the old pages now the Yellow Pages, totally, I looked up post production production facilities where I live where I was living, I had probably lived here for about maybe eight months.

7:22
And I’m coming back from England, my, my family lives, or my dad retired in North Carolina. I’m from New Orleans, originally. But when I came back from England when I was mid, late, late 20s. And even over there, I was kind of getting interested in the post stuff, I just didn’t have as much access. There’s a couple different places, you know, all over London in London do that, but they’re a little harder to get into because, you know, being an American wanting to get xenophobic, a little bit over there. I gotta say, as opposed to you guys who aren’t at all? Well, well, funnily enough, like, obviously, that’s unfortunately, a big deal right now. Changing. It’s terrible.

8:01
I think that’s true. Well, let’s, let’s be honest. Yeah. Well, it is it is it is it is.

8:06
So I, I ended up you know, calling them looking them all up, I called like three or four different places I,

8:15
I looked at the content, like their websites, like the crappy websites back then, like the best that websites can be back then. And I like picked based on the work. So if I liked the work, then I wanted to work there. Because I knew that I’d have access to doing the kind of work I wanted to do or was more interested in doing. So bring that up in the conversation, like when you had that conversation with the owner was it I really liked your work, I liked this particular thing about this particular spot, we just place a facility there or Well, at the time, you know, if I live in Charlotte, North Carolina, and at the time, banking was just so big, because this is the Bank of America headquarters. This is where it gets a little a lot of finance here. And I was living I moved back to this area, because my family mostly I was gone for a long time and overseas. So I I wanted to live closer to my family. So I picked up a decent sized city and I was going to see what happened basically, I wanted to live in LA I’m gonna move out to California but or New York, but it’s just it was too far away again, you know, all the way back is always like what’s the difference in living in London and LA, other than lifestyle and culture? You know, still not close my family. So anyway, I I ended up sort of picking the one that was cooler, which was more like monster trucks and spike speed boat shows and you know, just like Spock sports one, you know, sports stuff. And I love the the quick editorial styles. You know, I’m a big fan of a lot of Tony Scott movies, the later ones because of the editorial, the editor that he would use. I can’t remember his name’s sakarya No, I can’t remember his name.

10:02
Yeah, well look it up. Jesus, I just can’t remember his he’s fantastic editor and he edited like man on fire and a lot of that kind of deja vu and, and that kind of edit style that’s frenetic. I like that kind of stuff, especially, you know, late 90s, early 2000s. And so I kind of lean towards, like, how do I edit like that. And that sort of the, the, the genre that was doing that was sports. Really, I mean, if it wasn’t movies, it was sports. And there wasn’t a lot of movies being edited, you know, in North Carolina, so not a lot of moving shot. But that meant a lot of movies being edited, because there was a huge tax incentive here. So there’s lots of lots of movies that were created here, but our shot here, but they were not edited, all of David’s would go straight to LA. So I was kind of like, what can I do so I started working on monster trucks and speedboat shows, and, and you know, dragster shows and stuff like that. And then that, you know, that background, after leaving there going and work in the promotions department, which was more like coming up next. And like more like a network kind of thing. I learned how to do short form and graphics. So I started pushing the boundaries on the graphics scenarios, and having to do all kinds of graphics packages and working with designers and working with editors and working with, you know, animators and like, because there were several people there. I got,

11:20
I was able, I was thrown in the middle of it. So I kind of went for it. And then about two years later, three years later, after doing that, I I ended up getting offered a full time job over at NASCAR headquarters NASCAR. So I took that job. And that’s where I ended up working on Showtime shows and HBO shows and Fox shows and like several just tons and tons of stuff. Okay, so when you went from where you were into the NASCAR, you said you were offered the job? How did that, like someone’s just gonna ring you up and say, is a job? Or did I had that? Well, what I did was the place that I actually called, cuz I remember pretty, I remember pretty well now, now that I’ve been thinking about it. The place that I called initially said that I was they were totally open to me coming and working for free. And I could like serve coffee and stuff like that to people in the Edit rooms. Well, that lasted about three weeks. And I was gonna call another call from the another place I had called. And they said that they would let me sit in with an editor the whole time. And I didn’t have to do this menial client stuff for no reason. They were just, you know, the other. But they then called me two years later and asked if I wanted a full time job. So that was the promotions place. So like I went there for two, three weeks, it didn’t end badly. I just got an opportunity to go work in it and really work, you know, on more of the content I wanted to work on, just like

12:36
how did that happen? Like, yeah, yeah, they did. I kept in touch with people that I met over that three weeks. And then I just sent them my demo reel I sent what I’ve been working on is that, hey, I basically they were bigger than I knew they would pay. Yeah, I knew they had salaries, I know can get a full time job. Okay, as an editor, the other place where I was doing the dragster shows and stuff like that they just paid like by the day, you know, so it was very low, considering

13:01
but I took it because I want to do the work. And I was single, I wasn’t married to have kids and all that stuff like that. So I worked there for a few years. And then I got offered a job at NASCAR because I was doing freelance on the side,

13:15
some night shifts and things like that, you know, second shift stuff six to two in the morning to gonna kind of get an opportunity to work with all those bigger brands. So working with all those bigger brands, because NASCAR so filled with like all that advertising, especially then met NASCAR was really big. I’m not even a NASCAR fan, but I preferred working on that content, because it was fun.

13:35
And so then I ended up having to because then I would have to work not only on the shows, but then agencies would come in, and they would be doing a NASCAR spot with like a huge brand like tide. Or, you know, I mean, the list goes on, there’s hundreds of brands that we used to work with, specifically, through NASCAR. Well, that ended up becoming a scenario where then I was going, you know, I’m getting pretty good at these graphic stuff. I’m getting pretty good at this storytelling thing. And after about during the nine year period, I worked with NASCAR about three years and I started creating my own side business. That was like a graphics place because I didn’t want to be a conflict of interest for them. But I also knew they didn’t have a graphics department. So they would always outsource the graphics. And I was like, Well, why don’t I become that? Because then I because I’m not a graphics person. internally. They don’t have graphics people, but if I could do it on my own on my free time, they would pay me I can make more money. Did you so I say your sword as a business opportunity as opposed totally. Yeah. Okay. All right. Absolutely. I looked at it as a way to go run my own business. Okay. So I took I built my business called signal.

14:46
I called it signal because it was all about like, the one little light going off on the if you look at the map of the United States, it was like here we are. We’re over here signal. The only place in this area that does this kind of work. It was like no one else was doing it.

15:00
So I’ve called it signal. Plus, it was like the whole thing about, you know, tech and all that kind of stuff.

15:07
So I ended up having that company for 12 years, I ended up leaving NASCAR and going having full time and ending up with 1112 full time employees over a 12 year period, built it out was when DVDs when DVD offering and encoding and design for the menus and all that stuff and the covers and doing TV show opens and lots of stuff for national television, and then started getting into commercial work, because then the agencies were calling me to do commercial work. And then when I

15:36
I was, so I really focused on trying to get them commercial work, because I ended up realizing, hey, you know, working on commercials, you know, you work on it for six weeks, you were on a TV show for four months. And you watch it once, but we’re the spot, you’ll go back and watch 32nd spot lots of times. So I kind of enjoyed that quick fix better than I could show so much more of a wide range of work capability, showing short form examples, and I was Hey, watch a 30 minute show or watch a two hour documentary and nobody’s gonna do that. They’ll watch part of it once and they’re like, okay, yeah, he can. He can edit a story. But can you edit the story in 30 seconds?

16:19
It’s just different, you know, short films, in some ways is can be harder. It’s not it is. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, absolutely. It’s easier from a, you know, anyone that’s been imposed on a feature narrative, or doc knows that that is fucking Ryan. It’s brutal. Yeah, it is. But the show forms easier in that way. But from a storytelling perspective, it’s pretty hard. It can be sorry, oh, yeah, no, I learned I learned a lot, you know, the end the progression of going from, like my own place called signal. And then I did a name change about,

16:56
I don’t know,

16:58
last eight years in, I changed it to fresh content. Because of the change in the industry, where it was like, everybody’s like fresh content. At first, I just keep on hearing this. And I’m like, it’s so generic. And I love the fact that it was generic. And I was like, cuz nobody really knew what signal was. We couldn’t, I couldn’t decipher what it was. Nobody could decipher what it was based on the name. It was signal, a blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, it could be anything. So fresh content, like people get it because it’s so on the tip of the tongue in the social media and all online content. It’s that’s what it is. Yeah. First content.io if anyone wants to go and have a bit of a squeeze at Williams work, which is very good. So let me ask the the Emmys that you that you won was that before or after signal slash first content? That was that was in that that was with NASCAR? Yeah, all of those were with NASCAR. But they were with different other was Showtime, Fox.

17:56
HBO, and I think two of them were super Showtime. Okay, so they were for big networks, you know, and it was partnered up with them, they aired it everything we got paid. You know, everything was like we we were all hired to work with them,

18:10
you know, to create their content. Yeah, they wanted to do a stories and we would do that. So what was more profitable working with the stuff that you worked on that won the awards? Or I’m actually interested to know, the if there’s a correlation between winning awards and

18:30
financial stability, let’s, let’s call it that way. So not just about, you know, capitalism and making lots of money, but just for financial stability, because as creatives we, that’s a massive problem for for most filmmakers, is financial security and financial stability.

18:47
Did the awards help financially?

18:51
directly? No, not at all. Not one bit. They actually.

18:58
Because all they are really is validation to say, well, William knew what he was doing.

19:06
You know, it’s a lot of work. It was a lot of not not sleeping. It was a lot of middle of the night stuff to get done. It was a lot of

19:15
it was, you know, it had nothing to do like people go, Oh, he’s got to me, let me pay him twice as much money. No, it doesn’t work like that. It might, it might have, I believe, I actually believe that it may have actually hurt my financial life to get more money for something because people think, immediately Oh, he’s got me. He’s too expensive. I won’t even call him. You know, that I felt like, you know, so I didn’t really talk about them a lot. I didn’t show them a lot. And then people kind of gave me a lot of grief saying like, you should really show people that you have these. I’m like, Well,

19:48
I don’t. It didn’t help me. You know, and I was almost like, you know, they’d rather go to the guy like, you know, the guy that can just get it done and do camera. Yeah, to get it be done.

20:00
Do it cheap. And so I was like, it was kind of a dilemma there, right? And what I realized is, okay, I had these awards, I was proud of that, you know, I can stand on my feet, I kind of looked at like, I, I beat the industry, I beat my industry, I won several times. And, you know, I couldn’t get any higher, right? I’m not doing films, so I’m not in the Oscar category. I’m doing live TV. So that’s the me. And, and, and winning those was great. And then once I won those, it’s like, Who cares? Now? I don’t even like, put my stuff up for awards anymore, like Telly awards, or Addy awards. I just don’t do it anymore, because I won so much. And when I worked for agencies and things like that, I just it’s not it doesn’t mean anything to me. You know, help? You don’t

20:45
know? Not that I know of. I mean, no, no clients telling me I called you because of your Emmys, or your tallies, you’re at ease. Not at all. They call me because they see the work. And they and they they you know, I actually get emails two times a week about the work. Yeah, I’m going to, I’ve said this in the first episode, if anyone says the difference between being successful and not is the work, I’m going to call bs on it. And I’m, and we’ve had this conversation before. So I’m going to call bs on that as well.

21:16
But I’m going to, because it’s not just about the work, we You and I both know that it’s not just about the work. It’s about doing the work in a certain kind of way. Right? So this is Oh, no, totally, totally. It’s a nuanced, obviously, from one perspective, you can think about it, it’s about the work. But if you just create videos and think that that’s what’s going to get your work, then you’re an idiot, basically, no, no, yeah, what I mean by the work is like people see, they see the difference in the quality of the work based on based on the, the approach, like I work in layers, right? I, a lot of a lot of people don’t see the, like, the client is always super confused until the last, like, review, because they’re like, Oh, you know, because I don’t want to, I don’t like going too far and wasting my time, you know, getting to a point where they’re going to be happy too early. Because if you do that, you’re you’re losing the opportunity to really make it give it that 20% of that 15% that takes it over the top, that gives it the reason people will watch it more than one time. You know, so so if that’s what you mean by like,

22:32
I guess I’m a little confused by when I when I mentioned, it’s the work, I’m saying like the the work has gotten me more work, not the awards. And work has gotten has gotten that’s what I mean, that’s what I meant by the work got me more work. Like, if you look at the work, then you can’t meet you can people go, Oh, I want that. I want that level level of quality level of care level of giving the craft basically. Yeah, I mean, you don’t really give a crap emotionally give a crap about the work. You know, it’s unfortunate, it’s a double edged sword. Because the second you get a client that’s not happy with something you feel like is fantastic, then you’re crushed. You know. And that’s the that’s the unfortunate double edge sword of devil you know, kind of like, you can’t you can’t win either way, because you care about it. But then the second you get sort of criticized, you take it personal. And by being a being a person that takes it really personal. I believe that that is why actually the work is good, because I care about it so much. So it’s kind of like you can’t win either way. A little bit. Yeah, so but here’s the thing, a great video scene by no one will not get you more work. So

23:40
I think at the end of the day, quality, an absolutely quality, quality of video.

23:48
Quality of video is extremely important. It is what drives a career or business forward in when you’re running campaigns for clients, the quality of the video, the quality of the storytelling is what drives the business result. So it’s almost a given. However, a video seemed by no one does not. It will not, you know grow a business, it will not grow in Korea, it will not grow, or get a business result for a business. So

24:17
let’s move on to the second question which kind of dovetails into this. And that’s what’s the one unique or even strange thing that you’ve done? That you feel has been the biggest impact on your career and your success so far. But before you answer, I want to suggest to both you and you I mean, we’ve spoken about this before so you know how I feel about it. But for the audience, I think that when we talk about as filmmakers when we talk about just producing good work, but and then believing that that’s the difference between those that that do well in the industry and those that don’t. I think that is absolutely rubbish because there are there are a lot of a lot, not a few there.

25:00
There are a lot of really, really good filmmakers that have very high production value that work in layers like you do that create great content, and yet they’re struggling. So what’s the difference between those, and someone like you that’s doing well. So, you know, you said the Emmys didn’t really help, I think a combination of the awards, people knowing your work. And then it’s almost like, it’s the perfect storm of all of this stuff coming together. And then someone’s seeing the work, and seeing the quality of the work. That’s what is getting you work. So when you say that, you know, I just get calls from people. It’s almost like there’s this this momentum, that momentum that you have built up over the years, that enables people to to see the work and go, I want to work with this guy. But how does a young person like what, back in the day when you weren’t getting calls? What was that one thing? Or unique thing? Or Stephen Strange thing that you did? That that created the biggest that was the biggest contributor to your success of today? What do you think that would be?

26:10
If the risk of sounding like an old guy,

26:13
I would say that it is having a, an approach and mentality and a patience, and a hard work ethic? That kind of missing a little bit. These days with people like, I would work 20 hours a day, I wouldn’t I would go and I would work, I would just do it. You know, and I, I would, I would do it no matter what, you know, I wouldn’t compromise family stuff. But I would definitely, you know, I would I would if

26:44
you know,

26:46
it’s kind of bad. But you know, it’s Sunday right now for me. And I know it’s Monday, your time, but I worked all day. Because I worked on Sunday, I’m gonna I’m gonna push back on you, right? Because

26:59
at the end of the day, like I just said, a great video seen by no one does not drive a business does not grow a career. So what were you doing that when you created this video content, when you created the fresh content? And it was great. What were you doing to get work? So this would have been before fresh content? Right? Right. Oh, back in the day, I was networking. I was networking like crazy. I was working hard. I was going from place to place I was freelancing as much as I possibly could. I mean, I was as an editor, mostly, I mean, now now I’m producing direct, I mean, it’s just kind of like built onto that kind of stuff. You know, the past 10 years, I started directing more started producing more because I knew more people. And they saw that it was almost like, you know, going to school, for the you know, for the paying attention to the things that are changing, and reading and understanding like, what’s what’s actually happening. When I realized, here’s the stuff here we go. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So when I when I

28:01
it’s kind of a weird three tier three step scenario. When I started editing, when I started in production, everything was very ad going from analog to digital, when in the middle of that, like, the second phase was like hustle bustle, start my own business. You know, do whatever it took work, the long hours, you know, read the articles, understand that the works, break down, deconstruct people’s other people’s content.

28:28
And then the third tier was, you know, I worked for an agency for you know, a few years and I really got into the nitty gritty of it all I started directing, I started producing and editing. So the work just kind of like understanding the beginning, the middle, and the end, really helped. And then I started, you know, understanding that if I didn’t have people seeing the work that I was doing, you know, even though the clients were pushing it or whatever, I started creating a scenario where I was like, okay, slowly, but surely, I’m gonna start pushing stuff out, I’m gonna start talking about things, I’m gonna start doing blog work, let’s start talking about my background, I’m gonna start talking about what I love and what I don’t love and the differences between different different,

29:09
you know, structured businesses, like what’s an agency versus watch a production company versus what’s, what’s a video agency, you know, now, now, things have changed to the point where people, you know, aren’t just going to agencies for the creative, they’re going straight to the people that are doing the work, which I feel like is this. It’s, if you could, if you could wrap your head around, doing the the initial discovery of a brand, and understanding how to go from that discovery information to creating content that speaks to solving the business solution, or problem. And you can get a solution out of that and create your content based on that solution. Then, you know, one, you’re going to be a hero. I found that that’s the case. And then the next is that you’re you’re actually learning how to speak to new generate the new gender

30:00
of like holding the phones and holding the iPads, just being on the web and looking at YouTube and always just being on that never watching really TV and let’s say Netflix, it was the neurone the commercial there. So, you know, if you don’t follow that progression and constantly educate yourself and be a hustle bustle type person and not take no for an answer, don’t take no for an answer. You know, ask those hard questions, don’t just give up, have some guts, you know, and, and I find that that has helped

30:28
push through. And because I’m a little older now, and because I’m known in the city I live in, and I know all the production people because I go out of my way to meet everybody on the set. If I’m on a set, I go say hi to the interns, I say hi to the extras, I say hi to the production assistants, you talk to the catering people, you know, you talk you talk, you talk to the second ad and the assistant camera people, you just talk to them, you get the you make sure they know who you are and what you do. And then 10 years later, all of a sudden, you’re running the show, and they’re all you know, they’re older with you, but they’re working with you and they know who you are. So I believe that that’s another sort of thing, I work in layers. And I’ve also obviously we live in layers to really.

31:08
And so I kind of apply that thought process in my work, you know, I don’t just approach something to get it done to get paid, I approach something to, to love what I’m done, oh, and I get money for it. That, you know, if I think that way, there we have all the bills, I get it, I get it. But if you can try to think that way, your work will be better. Because you just you have that free flow of just loving what you’re doing. And you’re going to start gathering getting a reputation for doing great work. And then those people talk and you you know, you do what you got to do on the on the web, when it comes to promoting yourself, and doing the right kind of promotion for you and your business.

31:53
And keep up with the trends because keeping with the trends has been a big deal.

31:58
For me to try to like realizing that I need to change, realizing that you just shift, you got to keep up with it stuff changes every year and a half. You know, I think I’m glad that you were swung around back to the trends because listening to you speak then I think the one thing that stuck out for me is

32:18
is the trends. So I think that just networking is hope marketing.

32:26
You know, screen grabs onto social media onto Instagram and hashtagging it hope marketing, you’re hoping that someone’s going to see your work. And you’re hoping they’re going to go to your profile, you’re hoping that they’re going to click on the profile, and you’re hoping they’re going to go to your website, and you’re hoping that they’re going to go to the contact form, and you’re hoping they’re going to contact you for work. It’s fucking hope marketing, if so forget trolling people you want to work with? Well, you can’t

32:53
just blame you. But what you’ve done is, it sounds like what you’ve done is you’ve

33:01
you’ve really understood your profession well, right. you’ve understood the work, you’ve understood what, how to create great work. But then to take that to the next level. Sorry for the cliche, but

33:15
what you’ve then done is you’ve then educated yourself outside of the discipline itself. Yeah. So you’re you’re an expert within your domain of your authority within your domain of expertise, you really understand deeply the thing that you’re doing with me, in your case, directing and editing, yeah, and some producing.

33:35
But the thing that the difference was, being able to see the trends, and then understanding what it is to do to be ahead of the curve. So if you go back to your career, the first thing you did was you went and got you got yourself in a post house, so you can get some work. That’s the first thing you then saw with why you were there. No, sorry. You went to NASCAR after that they headhunted you. So you know, there’s a little bit of luck in that. But they only knew you would have been a combination of remembering how well you serve coffee and seeing some of the work.

34:11
Well also, like some of the freelancers that were some of the people that worked at NASCAR were freelancing for that other company and so it all kind of like, yeah, match. That’s why I say talk to people when you go and you work on anything. Yeah, yeah, for sure. But when you were at NASCAR, you then started to see trends, that that was a business opportunity. So it’s, it’s, it’s forecasting, what’s going to happen in the future and then position yourself from a business perspective, in order to go to that next level, right? It’s a part of that networking part of that knowing lots of people part of that’s also doing a lot of work. And then the same thing happened in fresh content, right. So you because you said previously that

34:47
I believe this is the case that you were doing mainly graphics, but then it went into kind of live action and of course what you do now, some of you some of your great work is a combination of the two

35:00
But you do a lot of live action stuff. So did you see was there a lot what made you make that pivot?

35:10
Well, I love movies. So I love storytelling, I love movies and graphics, graphics have gotten a little,

35:19
a little bit of a bad rap, I mean, people will kind of accept cheesy bad graphics, when they haven’t really seen really great graphics. And all it is, is, is working with people and, you know, looking at different culture, cut work. And, you know, I typically lean towards looking at a lot of work from South America, be honest with you, a lot of those, a lot of those artists down there, graphic artists and people like that, they just look at things totally different, you know, totally different. And it’s very colorful, and vibrant. And just the, the way they stylize, their, their, their, their, their content is just completely different than you do in the States. Like, you know, it’s all very NFL and sports and 3d basket, you know, football and all that kind of stuff here. Whereas, you know, other places. So I would say basically just research continue to do that. And because of that, and loving movies, and also being an editor for years, and then starting to direct it all just kind of combined into something where it’s like, I pull and pick what I’m really good at on each thing, and I apply it to the project. So if I know that I have a project specifically, that’s got a lot of live action in it. I’m editing, for sure. If there’s something that has a ton of graphics in it, then I’m going to I see depending on schedules, I will work on it with another like a support person is really necessary, you’ve got to be able to have a team that you can count on and go to if you need to, can’t do everything by yourself. You just can’t, you can’t get the work, like nobody’s great at everything. Pick the parts that you’re really good at, and do those things on that job and let other people and bring other people involved in the team to do what they do best. And that’s when your work is going to be fantastic. I’ve because I’m just a big believer in one person can do it all. You have to be a business. You have to think of yourself as a company as a business, to be able to pull the work off because you can’t be great at all of it. You can’t be great at strategy can’t regret it. copywriting can’t be graded editorial, you can’t be great at producing, you can’t be great at the editorial directing the game regretted design, you can’t be great at animation, you can’t be great assignment. You just there’s no way it’s like nine different careers. So find the ones you’re really good at and do those things. So I typically direct produce and creative direct

37:46
a lot.

37:48
Of course that I mean, that’s just given for me, I think of that is just a just a guarantee. Yeah. Okay, so my background with the South American stuff. You mentioned research, which which again, is is seeing trends. So yeah, I’m trying to pull out the bits that that will help others.

38:07
I think people have heard me say this before

38:13
Back in the day when I was studying art at art school, I would go around to older teachers and older students and asked them kind of, you know, what’s the thing? What’s the difference between being good and not? And often it was? The analysis was very shallow. So I the idea for me, the those filmmakers that the do well, it’s just about the work. I think that’s absolutely rubbish. It’s got to be more than that. And I think that sometimes people don’t even realize the things that they’ve done. That are the 1% that that is taken their Korean made them successful, I think with you. And I, I don’t think you even realize it. It’s not just the workmate, it’s it’s the fact that if you’re looking at the South American people like what’s going to motivate someone to,

39:02
to go and find something that’s different. Like you’re educating yourself, you’re researching, you’re trying to find trends, in some ways that’s about trying to find something that’s really cool, but different than everyone else around you. So when someone sees your work, it’s like, okay, that’s that’s why employees work. We know that because there’s this, there’s this thing about it. But that’s only come. It’s not about the work. It’s about everything. It’s about the other things around motivation, why you’re doing the work, etc. So anyway, let’s, let’s move on, because we could talk about that forever. I just think I started. Just real quick, I just want to say that I totally agree with you. I just kind of maybe take it for granted that that’s what I do, because it’s just what I’ve always done. When I was in college, they teach you to do the research. So I just figure like everybody does that. Always looking for something different. You know, I don’t just look at what I do and go oh, I want to do more of that and look what other people do and say I want to do some of that because that’s going to teach me

40:00
To grow, I’m going to grow and I’m going to, I’m going to apply something that maybe I didn’t do before. And then I learn and then that builds on that layer, you know? Yeah, I guess nonlinear editing really taught me how to live my life. Yeah. So yeah, I think when we begin to look more deeply at what it is that we do and how we do it, what we begin to see is

40:24
it systems, right isn’t just about creating good work. In fact, in order to create good work, you have to you have to be there’s other things that we’re doing that you’re doing in order to be successful. The reason why you won Emmys. It’s not just about the work. That’s obviously what we do translates into good work. Yeah. But it’s the things that we’re doing, like research, seeing trends, etc. that will enable us to actually get this good work in front of people anyway.

40:54
Let’s move on. Alright, So question number three, let’s move on. And the question I’ll just answer in one line and get answers. Yeah, lets you in the answering one line is that’s not going to happen, right?

41:06
What are you doing today to sustain your career, cutting out all the crap. Basically, I’m cutting to the chase. I’m just doing what I know I love and I’m not doing anything more than that. I’m changing, I’m changing. I’m literally the question is very viable for me right now. I am cutting out the unnecessary things. And I’m focusing on

41:27
I do not want, I’m not going to waste my time with people that just want free work from me a lot, because I tend to be nice and try to help people. And I just, I mean, like, like the client, but I can’t do that anymore. I want to focus on what I love. I’m gonna focus, like, be very laser focused and not change that. That’s my goal. Are you telling me that you still do free work? No, I give, I like to give advice. I’m kind of men, I mentor a lot. And that’s a good thing. And but it’s hurt. It’s like I do it too much.

41:58
So I try to help younger people. And I try to talk to interns, and I try to help them point them in the right direction. And that’s great. And I’ve done it for years. And I’ve realized that, you know, I need to focus on a couple of things specifically to keep to keep growing, and to change and to to morph into like keeping up with the industry, I have to do more mentoring to myself. Because this it’s gonna It used to be that it would catch you up if you didn’t pay attention for five years. Now. It’s if you don’t pay attention for six months, it’ll pass you up. Because everything changes so much. Yeah, the industry. So I’ve had to shift that a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. All right. So basically, if anyone hits you up for free advice, don’t be offended. If you don’t, you’re not advice. It just might be short, it just might be short. And, you know, specific to a certain day. You know, Clark, you understand that people ask you advice, you got to get to it on a certain date a certain time I just I have to allocate because I find that I do it all the time. Yeah, you batch you bake, you basically batch your life. So between your time and this time, I’m responding to people, if you email me that there’s a chance you’re not going to get a reply. That’s what I mean by that I spend time on people call me randomly on the phone, and they asked me questions, and I’ll talk to him for two hours, and I gotta stop doing.

43:12
You know, you can’t run a business that way. Alright, so what are you doing today? So this question is related to what are you doing today to help your tomorrow?

43:26
Actually, I am realizing that I hope this is an OK, way to answer this. I am I’ve realized in a big way, I’ve talked to several people lately about it, colleagues of mine, that interestingly enough, you know, I changed my location, I actually closed up my studio, it was a post studio with some production capabilities. Grant, you know, and I realized that I don’t need to have that because clients just don’t come over anymore. They just want to do it all through the web. They want to be very, very nimble, quick, and get it done. And, you know, I find that that that that helps. I’m not doing proposals anymore. I’m cutting to the chase some and telling people look, I don’t do proposals. I asked you what you have, and I’ll see what I can do, you know, based on that amount of money. And I’m fair, you know, I do it right. I’m gonna give you every all i got, but I got to know what I’ve got to work with to do that.

44:21
And then

44:23
I’ll RFPs at all. Nope, I’m kidding. I’m completely at total, a big big company out of New York the other day that I am not I asked him what they have to work with, because I’m not going to give a proposal so they could use it against me. Okay, do not do that. Who told you to do that? Who told me to do what? To not send proposals?

44:42
The gentleman named Clarke Scott.

44:47
Yeah, I’m glad he signed up I because you know, the industry is going to change. It’s ridiculous that you I mean, you think about it, you you work for two years for no money. When I hear that that hurts. That hurts me. It’s like

45:00
I, I don’t work that way. If I’m working with with young guys and girls, I pay them. It might not be much, but I pay them. Because the idea that a business owner has has used you for two years, I think is I think he’s immoral, to be honest.

45:18
So, but it’s the same across the board, because big agencies will use filmmakers, directors, editors, cinematographers. The last time I showed a TV see here in Australia, same thing, get it get a call from a creative director at a bigger ad agency here in Melbourne.

45:36
And the end, I said, Can you do a solid on this for us? Please, clock. I knew what that meant. That basically meant Can you do it cheap. He said, we’ll get you on the back end, we’ll get you more work. You know who I never heard from. Yeah. And you love a EULA? Because we’re stupid. We think I’ve done it. I’ve done I’m finally someone seen my genius. Finally someone saying that. And now they now I’m going to my career is going to take off. And that’s the reason why I was pushing back against you on the notion that it’s about work. It’s not it’s about other things, it’s always about, obviously, the work has to be good. That’s just a given. If your works, no good, you’re not going to get work. That has to be like the baseline. It’s the 1% above that baseline. That is the difference between those that do well and those that don’t. And if you look a little bit deeper at your career,

46:26
you’ll see that that’s the case. And I know you so I know that it is those your ability to see trends and and future proof your business in your career by seeing what’s going to happen. That’s the difference between you and the guy down the street, who’s now working at, I don’t know, Walmart, or is still doing kind of shitty one off videos for no money, right? The difference between that between you and that person is not the work. It’s the 1% Yeah, but the work has to be good, obviously. So let me go on to the final question for you. And that is, tell us something you’ve read or heard or watch that inspired you recently.

47:12
You know, it’s a kind of a weird one.

47:17
I like wait, I there’s two things actually, there’s a book called unfuck yourself.

47:23
Okay, it’s just kind of a self help a little bit.

47:27
It’s literally it’s called unfuck. yourself.

47:30
Love the title. Yeah, I actually I and I bought it at the airport, at the airport, when I was flying out to California to talk to a potential new client that does a lot of experiential content for like, you know, all over like, transportation malls, things in Vegas on the wall, you know, the Time Square stuff like that. I went to meet with them last month, and I saw it in the airport, and I felt pretty fucked. And I wanted to unfuck myself, so I bought it

47:59
and look it up because it’s pretty interesting itself out. But it’s pretty cool. And it’s pretty straightforward. And they don’t didn’t mince words. And then the other thing was a lever, not a song on Facebook and call it stupid or not. But it was just the thing about a girl that that wrote a thing on Facebook about, you know, a towel towel on her family when she was dying of cancer, she was young 26 and just wrote a list out of all the things to give a shit about and what not to give a shit about. And I kind of like, need to read that over and over again. Because it really puts things into perspective, giving a shit about stuff and not. And it just, you know, it’s all that kind of thing, you know, change the things that you can change and not the things you can and all that. But she wrote it in a different way. And it was very honest and straightforward to her family. And they didn’t find it till after she died. It’s one of those and it could be a fake story. Who knows. But you know what, I read it, whether it was fake or not. I still thought it was really good. And it was pretty thorough. And it seemed like it was written by somebody that you know, is very specific. So but you know, those are the two things so unfuck yourself and have some appreciation for things that that matter and the things that don’t know the difference.

49:09
Right. I think that’s a really good place to end tonight. So thank you for Thank you further to that for today. Thank you for the interview. Yeah, thank you for sharing.

49:17
Where can people find more about you? Well, interestingly enough, I have a couple of things. I have a website called fresh content.io that is the work

49:27
and my emails on there. But via email me You might not hear from me, but if you do, you may and then also interestingly enough, I I do have an acting career back back, you know, so IMDb, you can look me up, and I’ve done a lot of movies. Then in a lot of stuff. People have seen smaller characters, some TV stuff, but I keep doing it because it’s fun. And it’s a different part of the industry that helps me work with actors better, because I’ve been an actor for so long and helps it actually helped me with my you know, religion.

50:00
For my clients to sometimes So, you know, I got to pretend to be somebody that I’m not sometimes because you know, I’ve got to do business and I’m not a great business person.

50:10
But I play one on TV.

50:14
complex in. Thanks, mate. Yeah, you bet. Thank you. So have you enjoyed today’s episode and here’s what I want you to do next, I want you to take one thing that you got from today’s show, and to put it into practice in your career in business, because it’s only through having the right systems in place, that you’ll be able to take your career and business from where you are today to where you want to be. So again, I hope you enjoyed today’s episode. So until next time, I’m Clarke Scott from next level filmmaker. Have a great day.

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